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26 March 2009 @ 10:41 pm
Supernatural: Was Heavenly Intervention Planned From The Start? [NO SPOILERS]  

I recently started re-watching Supernatural and got on to episode 1.12 Faith this evening. I wasn’t paying all that much attention, mostly watching it as a background whilst I trudged my way through another soul-destroying essay question for my dispensing medicines NVQ3 when all of a sudden I’m hearing something and then I’m sitting up and I’m starting to pay some serious attention, because I’ve totally just realised that THIS IS IT! This is like the moment, the foreshadowing for everything that has come to pass in Supernatural, but most especially the fourth season.


We all know that Faith is about Dean being seriously injured, he’s given- give or take- around 6months to live and Sam decides that there is no way he’s letting Dean go that easily and takes him to see a Faith Healer-


DEAN: You’re not gonna let me die in peace, are you?
SAM: I’m not gonna let you die, period. We’re going.


- Dean is of course a sceptic, but the fact is he is healed (forgetting about the Reaper side of things momentarily) and when Dean questions as to why, out of all the people who turned up to be healed, he was picked he is told the following:


DEAN: Can I ask you one last question?
ROY: Of course you can.
DEAN: Why? Why me? Out of all the sick people, why save me?
ROY: Well, like I said before, the Lord guides me. I looked into your heart, and you just stood out from all the rest.
DEAN: What did you see in my heart?
ROY: A young man with an important purpose. A job to do. And it isn’t finished.


DEAN: (looks slightly surprised.)

- are we seeing the light here people?! That was my second little “omg!” moment, because even though we all already knew that Kripke was a genius, I’ve only just realised how much of a goddamned genius he is! Also:


“ Eric Kripke cites "Faith" as his favourite episode of Supernatural saying: "It's when I first realized what the show was capable of. Here's this episode about: Is there a god? What's meant to be? And is there free will? And is your life worth the cost of someone else's life? It's a metaphysical and moral study of the boys' universe. There's so many different places the show can go and so many tones. That's been really fun to do." ” [source]


Because, correct me if I’m wrong, but that just reeks of the kind of foreshadowing to having the heavenly host on your side at some point in the future. I mean, knowing what we do thus far of season four (up to episode 4.16 for me at least), it totally makes sense, right?


It’s got me thinking now too, are there any more of these little nods to the future out there? Maybe even something that’ll hint to the outcome of season four/the series as a whole?


Now, I’m not hugely active in the Supernatural fandom, in terms of meta/theories, despite having been a fan since the show first started in the UK, so if these sorts of things have already been hashed out, please do provide me linkage, because I’d love to read them and find out what everyone else is saying!

Also, anyone know where I would post something like this? I'd love to find people to conspire with about this sort of thing now XD


mood: contemplativecontemplative
absdax: Deanabsdax on March 26th, 2009 11:16 pm (UTC)


i really need to watch all these again!!!!

but yeah!!!

KRIPKE planned it right from the beginnin!!!!!
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Dean; demoncs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 07:20 pm (UTC)
Isn't it exciting?! I'm hoping I'll be able to pick up a few more as I rewatch the whole series!

ditchwaterrosie: mishaditchwaterrosie on March 27th, 2009 12:22 am (UTC)
:D I love that episode. The bit with the Blue Oyster Cult soundtrack made me amazingly happy...I think it was at this point I realised I was hooked <333

But wow! Cos i had to like blitz through every episode in a month to catch up in time, a lot of it appears to splurge together (must go back to them over summer...less pressure :P)...and wow!

Rewatching series is the best thing ever, especially when certain creators are clever ;)

Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Castiel; gardiancs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 07:23 pm (UTC)
Yeah, the BOC was just made of win, and completely sold the episode X)

It's very exciting, isn't it? I'm hoping with some more rewatching I'll be able to pick up more stuff :D heh. It's mad to believe that Kripke though of this on an epic 5-season scale, esp without knowing for certain that he'd even get more seasons approved, you know? HE IS CLEARLY GOD XD heh.
Jascrystalchain on March 27th, 2009 07:48 pm (UTC)
Faith is one of my favorite episodes of all seasons and I already thought back to what Roy said to Dean the moment Castiel said "I'm an Angel of the Lord." to be honest and it had me squeeing like crazy :D
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Castiel; Ccs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 07:51 pm (UTC)
I remember liking Faith the first time I watched it, but hadn't really thought much on it either way since until I started rewatching the series, now I'm all giddy at the idea that Kripke both thought of the whole arc back then, but also that (from a fanfic writer POV) that heaven (maybe Castiel?) interviened and made sure Dean stood out that day?

Who knows! It got me excited anyway XD ...have you spotten any other such links? I'm continuing in my rewacth and hoping more stuff will jump out!
Harmony.: Dark Deanlady_rock on March 27th, 2009 07:49 pm (UTC)
I agree with Kripke, Faith is one of my favorite episodes, because its the first time we acknowledge the existence of a God AND we get to see vunerable Dean and that Winchester mentality of doing anything for each other to keep them alive.

I'm really glad you pointed this out because I've been sort of wondering if they were planning this all from the start or not, and clearly they have! I love this show, and its epic writers and foreshadowing!!
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Dean; worriedcs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 07:56 pm (UTC)
I remember liking the episode the first time I saw it but didn't really remember the specifics, not until I started rewacthing things anyway. It's exciting to think that Kripke might've planned this whole arc from the very beginning :D

I think that in Faith, Dean was possibly on the verge of having faith, there was still the doubt even though he was healed and I think if the nurse hadn't told him about the other man dying he might've started to believe. I'm wondering if having found out the whole thing was a fraud just cemented Dean's belief that a God does not exist. If I recall he battles with Sam on this belief in more than just this episode?

But yeah, running off a bit there XD ...this show rocks me so hard <33
(no subject) - lady_rock on March 27th, 2009 08:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 08:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lady_rock on March 27th, 2009 09:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 11:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Mari-chanleveldevil on March 27th, 2009 07:52 pm (UTC)
Conspire with me? XDD I noticed this a while ago - but only because I started watching the show when season 4 aired. And then, since I had become a fan, I decided to watch the older episodes and I almost died when I saw 1x12. *nodsnods* Actually, it's really funny to watch the show knowing what's going on at its first season - a lot of things can be seen under a different perspective and that's just one of them. :) I wrote a bit about this funny coincidence between 1x12 and the general theme here, but it's a little hard to find it among all my ramblings about the 4x15/4x16 promo (and haha, the episodes proved me wrong regarding a few theories I had about the promo itself! xD). If Kripke DID plan this from the beginning, he's awesome for being able to see THAT far. o__Ob
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Castiel; wingedcs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 08:12 pm (UTC)
I guess it's maybe easier to spot this sort of linkage if you're plowing through the seasons (or are a super hard core fan XD) than if you've seen them as they aired- for me though I remember key scenes and stuff, most of the last three seasons are blurred under the awesome of season four XD it's great getting to rewatch things and start picking up on things that never really meant anything the first time round!

It's amazing to think that maybe Kripke was planning this whole arc from the beginning, especially since there was no way to be sure the series would last this long! I'm hoping to find more links as I continue in my rewatch!

I love your flail on the promo for 4.15 XD that's pretty much what I was like when I saw it! heh. I think there is still time for Castiel, maybe not to fall, but to align himself more permanently with the boys (I'm not sure if I *want* him to fall, you know? I like his angel-mojo!) heh.
Renée: Castiel. The righteous path.rogueslayer452 on March 27th, 2009 08:44 pm (UTC)
I'm inclined to agree with you regarding the foreshadowing. Of course I've believed that Kripke has always had a plan for the show, perhaps not always knowing precisely what was going to happen next, but he's had things in mind where he wants the show to beginning and where it would end.

Though I've always believed that the presence of faith and the questioning whether or not there's a higher power is not coincidental. The entire concept of the show deals with the supernatural, and we have ghosts and ghouls and demons and even Hell, so why not have that balance of having Heaven and the forces of Good as well? I've read some fans' complaints that they hated the idea of angels and God and Heaven being introduced, but in retrospect it makes absolute perfect sense it would be introduced. It's been there since the beginning, only scattered here and there and not really focused heavily until this current fourth season.

I pretty much died with delight when during 4.01 we saw Castiel and he said he was an angel of the Lord, and that God has a plan for Dean. It's just so...right and perfect, and in the series that deals heavily with mythology the whole Good vs. Evil and Heaven vs. Hell just fits so well with the mythos.

And the setting up between the brothers, definitely. In the beginning of the series it had been about Sam -- what is Sam's purpose? Why is he having these visions? These powers, what are they about? What was the YED's plans for him and this demon war/army business? And now, we're getting more into Dean's journey, which just happens to be from God Himself, and this huge bigass battle that's going to happen will determine their fates indefinitely. The mythos of this show, even at the time of S1 they didn't know it would expand this much set it up perfectly that they are connecting those dots to make the continuity of the show flow more as it heads towards its end.
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Dean; worriedcs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 09:06 pm (UTC)
WORD! on everything you just said there. I've always wondered if they'd bring things up a level, and you can see that through each season they've been building to bigger and better things, but for some reason I'd never thought they'd get quite *this* big.

Not that I'm complaining, I LOVE the idea of God/Heaven/Good being intoduced, it really does make the best counteraction to the themes we've already had playing out through the whole series thus far. It makes all kinds of sense and makes me wonder why I'd never thought it'd go this way before now, you know?

I'm very giddy over the idea of Dean having his "journey" now as you say, I loved Sam's and the wondering where it was leading but it's way more awesome seeing that Dean has a destiny in all this too, that he's not just John's son or Sammy's brother, that he does in fact have a purpose and that God, and Castiel, are there to show him the way.

It's got me wondering, what other moments of foreshadowing did Kripke throw in there through the last three seasons? I'm fairly sure Faith wasn't the one and only and I cannot wait to find them if there are! heh.
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on March 27th, 2009 09:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 11:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on March 27th, 2009 11:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cs_whitewolf on March 28th, 2009 06:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rogueslayer452 on March 28th, 2009 07:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
fai_nekoi: Castielfai_nekoi on March 27th, 2009 08:54 pm (UTC)
I'm so glad I'm not the only one that saw this. My roommate and myself re-watched them awhile back and she didn't say anything but I noticed this too. I was like: YES! Castiel's been stalkin' him this whole time. xD
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Dean&Castiel; &cs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 09:12 pm (UTC)
::high fives::

YES! the whole "Castiel's been stalkin' him this whole time" thing totally went through my mind too XD lmao.
(no subject) - fai_nekoi on March 28th, 2009 02:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cs_whitewolf on March 28th, 2009 06:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fai_nekoi on March 28th, 2009 10:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cs_whitewolf on March 29th, 2009 05:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fai_nekoi on March 29th, 2009 08:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Ashinan: Cute Deanashinan on March 27th, 2009 09:05 pm (UTC)
I started to do what you are doing: rewatching all the seasons to keep from yanking out my hair over term papers. And when "Faith" popped up, I actually closed my Essay and watched it because all I could think was 'The Angel's totally did this because they can't afford to lose a Winchester!'

And then another episode, later on, "Houses of the Holy" is about a priest that thinks he's an angel, right? And the priest explains that no human can become an angel and I was just all squinty and thinking about it and now I'm paying way more attention to the episodes and you can actually see that Kripke dropped a lot of hints about the possibility of angels coming onto the show. It amazed me.
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Castiel; halocs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 09:32 pm (UTC)
'The Angel's totally did this because they can't afford to lose a Winchester!'

Exactly that! Especially knowing what we do now about Dean having a "purpose", a job God wants him to do. There's no way they could have let him go so easily. Although, it makes me wonder- why allow him to go to hell in the first place? Unless there was no way for them to stop the deal even with a years notice. hrmmm...

That's the other episode I've been thinking about since Faith, the one that stands out in my mind anyway as a similarly linked one, Kripke really is a genious when it comes to this plotting thing! heh. And he seems really keen, right from the start, to bring in the idea of God/Heaven/Angels/etc to combat the darkness they have to fight all the time.
(no subject) - ashinan on March 28th, 2009 08:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cs_whitewolf on March 28th, 2009 06:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
It's a lid and it's black.: *are staring into each others eyez*blacklid on March 27th, 2009 09:08 pm (UTC)
Excellent post. There has always been a plan! It's so nice to see showrunners who stick to the story and don't get waylaid by network execs and financial hardships. They are all amazing.
And yes, there are lots of similar nods to the future (and the past) in the episodes. There is a while slew of brainiacs on spn_heavymeta. This post would fit right in. :)
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Castiel; holier than thocs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 09:34 pm (UTC)
Thanks :D it sure likes there has always been one anyway! And totally, I'm glad to see that it doesn't appear they've skimped on anything and stuck to their guns where Supernatural is concerned! So much love to everyone behind the show for that X)

Thanks for the comm! I'm curious though, the rules seem to ask you to claim an episode/meta first and then post, but the posts to the comm don't appear to follow the rules... do you know what's what at all? I don't want to end up posting and getting flamed or anythig XD
(no subject) - blacklid on March 28th, 2009 02:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cs_whitewolf on March 28th, 2009 06:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Keiran: Supernatural - Dean matcheskeire_ke on March 27th, 2009 10:12 pm (UTC)
Faith is one of my favourite episode, top three in fact, because that is the episode that shows us who Dean is. How damaged and unworthy he feels and how valuable the universe finds him (because I think that reverend Roy was a genuinely spiritual man, who chose Dean because he saw the potential in him).

I didn't think this was entirely planned, the heavenly intervention, because I don't think destiny is at work in SPN, not the way it is in other shows, but I did think it is a sign angels were watching over Dean. :)
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Dean; worriedcs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 11:30 pm (UTC)
Yeah? What's your other two faves?

Very true! We see sparks of vulnerability in the lead up to Faith, but it's in this actual episode that we see the first true signs that maybe he's more than just a little bit broken, and how he definitely cannot see in himself what others see in him <33

Hmmm, perhaps not planned in the way I'm suggesting. But it certainly acts as a stepping stone to what "could be" in the following seasons, but most particularly season four.
(no subject) - keire_ke on March 27th, 2009 11:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cs_whitewolf on March 28th, 2009 06:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
the infraggable crunk: Castielblualbino on March 27th, 2009 10:16 pm (UTC)
Okay, I need to re watch Faith (again). I have to admit that that it struck me as a little odd the last time I watched it, last year, but that was before Lazarus Rising. It could be foreshadowing, and if it is, Kripke is a supergenius! To be thinking that far ahead.

(I hope it was foreshadowing, and not just a weird plot thing)
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Dean&Castiel; stop itcs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 11:32 pm (UTC)
I think he's a genius regardless, but if we ever find out that this is true- that he did plan this big from the start?- then omg somebody give that man a medal because that is just epic in all kinds of crazy and kick-ass ways XD

(I hope so to! But either way, we still love it! heh)
aisling_dooraisling_door on March 27th, 2009 10:33 pm (UTC)
YES!!! I now need to rewatch every episode because I didn't remember that detail at all!!! I remember thinking when Faith originally aired that there was a higher purpose, but I then totally didn't connect it with what's happening now!

Kripke will be the death of me...
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Castiel; hallelujahcs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 11:34 pm (UTC)
I think Kripke will be the death of all of us before long XD

And totally, I'm seeing so many little things I'd maybe noticed before but never really paid attention to as I rewatch season one. It's refreshing, and I'm having such a ball seeing them "grow" as characters and watching their "plot" unfold all over again, especially whilst knowing how things are pannig out over the next three seasons. Good times! heh.

(also? your icon? AWWW!)
Chellealtyronsmaker on March 27th, 2009 11:27 pm (UTC)
I totally agree. From Seaons one, absolutely. In On the Head of a pin, the first scene of the dead angel was dead on remeniscent of jess and Mary on the ceiling, and I was thinking all about the first season, and how important it was to this season.

So absolutely. I"m right there with you.
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Castiel&Dean; parkcs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 11:36 pm (UTC)
O MY ACTUAL GOD! I didn't see that! Not at all! I kept thinking about the angel and something was niggling me about her but I totally failed to join the dots. omg that is so... WOW.

I think I like this fore-(back?)-shadowing thing! heh.
(no subject) - altyronsmaker on April 2nd, 2009 01:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
Bella J.: castiel: seriousbellajayd on March 27th, 2009 11:37 pm (UTC)
This is a brilliant theory. People have long posited that angelic intervention has been planned for a while. Especially since Kripke has said [more than once] that he has had everything planned out for the show since he began -- which is why they show is so incredible with continuity!

I love everything you said here, and the quotes that you use really do support your theory. It convinced me :)

p.s. why not post this at spnforthesane?
Campaspe: Supernatual \\ Dean&Castiel; send you bacs_whitewolf on March 27th, 2009 11:51 pm (UTC)
Thanks! It just totally hit me and I couldn't help but share!

Kripke's comment which I posted about Faith, made me think that he's definitely had an idea as to where he wanted to take things, whether his inclusion of hints in the episodes leading up to S4 were intentional or not (though I say they are XD)!

I've always like Supernatural for it's continuity. Not many shows are as good for that sort of thing, but it's a definite not in their favour and makes me love Kripke even more.

Awesome :D and thank you for the comm link. I've posted this to them now.
(no subject) - violettestars on March 27th, 2009 11:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bellajayd on March 28th, 2009 02:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
bakinblak on March 28th, 2009 12:40 am (UTC)
Great catch! I'd forgotten that line even though it's one of my favorite episodes. I would also say to take a look at Houses of the Holy, the way at the beginning Sam is all gung ho for it being angels and says he prays and then by the end of the episode he's starting to have doubts. On the other hand, Dean is skeptical talks about how his mom said 'angels are watching over you' and they weren't and how he doesn't believe, then at the end of the episode after what happened to the rapist he goes back to the hotel and tells Sam he thinks he just saw the will of God.
Campaspe: Supernatural \\ Castiel; grey wingscs_whitewolf on March 28th, 2009 07:11 pm (UTC)
Very true! I'd forgotted about the "miracle" Dean witnessed at the end of that episode :D I cannot wait till I get to in in my rewatch! heh.

It's so disheartening to see Sam losing his faith, (it seems that throughout the seasons there's always been something to make Sam lose faith right up until he meets the angels and realises they're "all dicks"! heh) but at the same time seeing the slow development of it in Dean is inspiring.
(no subject) - bakinblak on March 29th, 2009 12:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cs_whitewolf on March 29th, 2009 05:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)