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18 July 2008 @ 07:26 pm
{ Sticks and Stones }  
 So I'ma scrolling through the flist and spot this request on one of the communities:

"Does anyone know of any post cyberwoman rape fics(Janto obviously)" [source]

And I'm thinking to myself, 'ooo post-cyberwoman fic!' And click to see what's being linked. For some reason I decided to re-read the actual request and upon realisation, took a moment to blink and was all 'Oooooh!'. Not that that put me off XD but it really surprised me that even though we all know themes like this are read and written all the time, I hadn't really expected to find someone *asking* for it, you know? Which of course sounds rather silly now that I think about it, but well!

That said, I was even more surprised to find "Sinnerman*" linked in reply! ...is it terribly horrible of me to feel so jubilant over that? I do have a rather large soft spot for all my "darker" pieces of fiction. 

*[Sinnerman | Jack/Ianto | R/18-Rated | Dubious Consent & Violence] Though not technically a rape-fic, it is somewhat bordeline on the whole consent thing, in that the reader is never entirely sure whether Ianto truly wants it or not. In all honestly I'm not sure, even having written it, whether Ianto himself knew whether he wanted it or not at the time. methinks he doth protest too much, and all. Also, it's not exactly a post Cyberwoman fic. It certainly has some unspoken conotations that could relate it to Ianto's actions in that episode, but I never actually did give a reason for the sudden atmosphere and Jack and Ianto needing to have their, er, confrontation. Hmmm. Interesting how the mind works, sometimes. 
mood: jubilantjubilant
OneSarcasticChick: ianto perturbedsarcasticchick on July 18th, 2008 07:21 pm (UTC)
i saw that and my brain kinda went 'do-wha??'

just...actually asking for rape fic?

to me that just ... implies the romanaticized rape fic w/ the magic penis and i refuse to read those. why it's such a common theme...i don't know. one that's done well, is more dub-consent or actually treats rape as -rape- and not a flipping harlequin plot device? i'll read that.
Campaspe: Torchwood \\ Ianto's Coffee Clubcs_whitewolf on July 18th, 2008 07:37 pm (UTC)
Yes! That's exactly what made me sit back a bit and think, oh! is someone really asking for this? I definitely got the implication they were asking for the 'magic peen' type of story.

I think it's so common because at the age most people are when they start writing/reading the "romanticized rape fic" they're... well not very mature or clued up about just how devistating rape can be. They think that there's always a happily ever after and someone nearby to shag the pain away. Alas.

Of course, even know this it doesn't stop my ego from taking a happy lurch at having my fic recced XD But I feel content at least that I do not have so much as a wiff of the "magic peen" in it!
OneSarcasticChick: donnasarcasticchick on July 18th, 2008 09:37 pm (UTC)
yup. i'm half tempted to write a 'take back the plot' for a rape fic, but after WH i'm worn out on the whole emotional-psychology of writing. :)

i think that part of what you said re: the mature/clued up is that ... these TAS plot devices are just short-cuts to emotion. there is no grasp or concern for actual psychology because either they've had little to no real-world experience. or, if that's too harsh, they're still focused on the limited-perspective of the world. everything's still viewed through their lenses and don't have a global world view yet (all themes discussed in transpersonal psychology).

take ianto's story. there is an incredible amount of psychology w/ ianto as far as explaining his actions, his personality, etc... however, that's far more nuanced, far deeper below the skin. but people still insist on writing him as a weepy girl or using shallow TAS plot devices to push a story.

doesn't mean that in some of my old fic, i didn't do the same thing. i think TAS plot devices are a natural progression in the writing process. let's you focus on the elements of the story first rather than the psychology (cause rape evicts a def emotion in the reader, so you don't have to actually write the emotion, ya know?). and then as you progress, you want to move beyond that and get that there's more to a character than a cheap TAS plot device.


have a happy lurch! it's always a warm fuzzy to have a rec *g*

Campaspe: Torchwood \\ 2.05 \\ Emo Iantocs_whitewolf on July 19th, 2008 07:25 am (UTC)
Maybe leave that one for a while yet ;) we don't want you writing yourself into an early grave or something! heh.

You phrase your explainations so very eloquently! And they make such sense too. I can completely agree that the idea of writing rape (as a TAS plot device) really is just a quick way to just from one emotion to the next. No need for time and healing because you've got your < insert dashing hero here > to make everything all better mere moments after your < insert woobie here > has been attacked. All hail the magic of the peen.

I know it's definitely also about the maturity/clued up level in a person, and I do think there's a bit of a 'follow the leader' theme that goes around with these sort of plot devices. Take fanfiction.net and the type of authors one usually finds there (mostly young, unexperienced, with naive ideas about happily ever after). If they read a story about poor Ianto being raped (even a good one dealing with the themes in a more practical way), they'd think, 'oh wow, look how close it's brough him to Jack after everything!' then they'd want to write their own version, but cutting out all the emotional crap so they can jump straight from the pain to the pleasure in the blink of an eye.

And I should know, I used to be a fanfiction.net author XD (though pleased to say that aside from my Mary-Sue phase, I've never done the same thing!)

Ah. such riviting discussion for a dreary morning!

Georgie: Torchwood - Ianto (bloody hot)indiefairy on July 18th, 2008 07:21 pm (UTC)
You're not the only one surprised to see someone asking for that type of fic, took me a moment.

and Oooh I love Sinnerman! XD XD

also my thestopwatch fic is starting to take form, good that considering it's due in on Sunday XD
Campaspe: Torchwood \\ Rentboy Iantocs_whitewolf on July 18th, 2008 07:40 pm (UTC)
Yeah! I really did at first think 'ooo cyberwoman fic!' before doing my blink moment over the whole thing. I mean, I'm not innocent in having read/written the stuff before, but I'd never *ask* for it, you know? It seems... improper, almost? As if the reading/writing isn't bad enough ;) haha

XD yay! I loved writing Sinnerman. I have to admit I was exhausted after writing it, I think I stopped writing for a couple of months after completing it, but it's still one of my favs to have written! <33

((ooo!! that's very exciting! And I'm in pretty much all weekend so beta services are go! heh))
Georgie: Doctor Who - Ten/Ianto (Jack no!)indiefairy on July 18th, 2008 07:48 pm (UTC)
Totally get you I'm all for reading it, haven't yet tried my hand at writing it, but I wouldn't be apposed to it. Yet you're right there is something slightly wrong? about the asking for it. XD

It is superb hun, such a good fic XD

((Yays! I was on a roll earlier but I've got to a blowjob scene and now I've had to stop and think. lol))
Campaspe: Torchwood \\ Bondagecs_whitewolf on July 18th, 2008 07:59 pm (UTC)
Gosh, it's all very british of us, isn't it? X) with the mentality that it's okay so long as you're not asking for it. heh. loving it.

X) ::feels all warm and shizzle::

((...say what now?! omg don't stop writing! ::hurries onto msn to prod you::))
Zedhalfspokenwords on July 18th, 2008 07:38 pm (UTC)
Nothing against your fic, of course, but I have to confess that when I first saw that request (on the original comm), it made me feel a little queasy. Ah, well.
Campaspe: Torchwood \\ 2.05 \\ Comforting Squeezecs_whitewolf on July 18th, 2008 07:44 pm (UTC)
No worries! I know it's definitely not everyone's cup of tea, and that's perfectly okay! :)

And, although I didn't feel sickened by the request, I do know what you mean. It seems wrong(?) to be *asking* for something like that, doesn't it? Despite knowing that it does exist out there.

I suppose there's a concern that, as sarcasticchick replied above, writers tend to write rape in a romanticized way, as if it's not a big deal and can be easily "fixed". :S which it definitely cannot be. Not entirely, easily or quickly, for sure.
Zedhalfspokenwords on July 18th, 2008 08:03 pm (UTC)
Actually, I think sarcasticchick voiced a lot of my thoughts very eloquently. I don't really have a problem with fics that treat rape as rape, with all the terrible implications (for both of the characters! if you're going to write Jack as a rapist, you have to be committed).

There are some writers I trust to do that. There are a whole, whole lot that I don't. I've read Sinnerman and it's dark and psychological and awful (and those are compliments, by the way XD), but somehow that really wasn't the vibe I got from the request post.

Oh, fandom.
Campaspe: Torchwood \\ 2.07 \\ Ianto/Rissen Mittencs_whitewolf on July 18th, 2008 08:17 pm (UTC)
I know exactly what you mean! I don't read fics dealing with this theme *unless* it's by a writer with a good enough reputation. One that won't sell me short or sensationalise the themes being portrayed.

This, and the phrasing of the original request, is what's preventing me from reading any of the other links posted in reply. They might be brilliant fics and not at all link I'm thinking they might be though!

And thank you. I *do* take that as a compliment. It is pretty much everyone of those things you describe it as being and that is what I was going for. To be honest I wasn't expecting so many people to actually enjoy it, and enjoy for being as dark as it was!
something like life: sad face mesantousha on July 18th, 2008 08:15 pm (UTC)
ok now i feel dirty :'(
I honestly wasn't even thinking about the inapropriatenes(sp?) of the request. I just had this plot bunny in my head that would not leave. I later stumbled upon a fic in which Ianto was raped by aliens and well...
The whole thing started when I watched Fragments and then thought about Cyberwoman and Countrycide. I constructed a fic in which Janto were close friends. Jack flirted but Ianto was always out of reach.
I suddenly saw Jack's rage culminating into this, where he would be angry enough to take what he thought Ianto was dangling infront of him. And retconning Ianto after the deed to safe his conscious.

But now i feel dirty, I just never thought this far ahead. In my mind it was just fiction. Off course rape is terrible and I would never downplay that.
Campaspe: Torchwood \\ 2.12 \\ Remembering Lisacs_whitewolf on July 18th, 2008 08:24 pm (UTC)
Oh no! Don't feel dirty! I'm sorry if I seem to be implying that you are through the request! I only meant to say that I found it really weird to see that type of fic being requested. We all know it gets written, and read, and reviewed. But, no one ever really *asks* for it, you know?

Hell, my fic was linked in that post ;) and I was *chuffed* about that. So if you're dirty, then I share at least half of that!

The dealing of rape in fic is always going to throw up debate, but I have no problem with it so long as people are portraying it realistically as opposed to romantically! And you really don't seem like the kind of person (by your comment) who would see it as anything like that.

The premise you just posed to me *is* something I would read. Because it's dirty and real and sounds *believable*.

I'm really sorry, darling! Please don't feel horrid?
thalassa_ipx: TW - Ianto - the smell of Uthalassa_ipx on July 19th, 2008 02:37 am (UTC)
Rape theme aside I have this fic of yours saved at my HD.
Just thought you should know how good it is.
Campaspe: Torchwood \\ 2.05 \\ Killer Iantocs_whitewolf on July 19th, 2008 07:15 am (UTC)
Well thank you very much, darling! X)

And I don't really think of my fic as being a rape-fic, more non-con to be honest, but I guess that's all a matter of perspective when you're reading it.
daylyn: Jack Ianto kiss short_indiefairydaylyn on July 19th, 2008 07:02 pm (UTC)
Whoa!!! Just read Sinnerman. OMG so awesome! The hate, the anger, the desire... fucking brilliant. I don't know if that was what that person was looking for, but it sure as hell made MY day.
Campaspe: Torchwood \\ 2.12 \\ Falling into youcs_whitewolf on July 19th, 2008 08:41 pm (UTC)
:D Thank you! It was certainly an experience to write, I'm still not entirely sure why I decided to write that piece the way I did, to tell the truth it was supposed to have been more light porn than anything else but there was just something... some moment, or look shared between them that made me redirect the whole scene. All that said, I was extremely pleased with the results and I am so chuffed that you enjoyed reading it too! X)

((also, I think I may have inadvertedly offended the requester with this post :S))